Why the avicara? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Coloneh · Mar 08, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxterduke

I used to say the same whenever a person complains but I came to a realization that if we keep saying that then there wont be people playing GW anymore.

This sentence is not constructive at all anymore.

I disagree. we dont need people like this. I dont want them on my team, and i dont want to play against them. they will be rude either way.

lilnate22 · Mar 08, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

i swear to god that the guys at anet in charge of the economy is smoking something...OR they are complete morons OR they are apes...
i ll take option C

ne how lets look at the reason for "farming nerfs"
we can all agree that it because of the countless bot/RL farmers who sell for cash.. agree? yes

now lets look at some sites that sell this gw gold... 100k=5.89 200k=$10
or 100k=6.79 200k=11.56

as you can see this is like minimum wage.. and theres NO WAY IN HELL w/ the crap job that analnet does at "farming updates" that you can get 100k in 1 hour...
so isnt it more beneficial fo a player to just pay the $6 and get 100k??
i think so

what anet is tryin 2 do nd stop farmers is actualy helping 'em
ive noticed that the number of gold selling sites have risen tremendously over tha past month...
so we'll let analnet decide..

lilnate22 · Mar 08, 2007, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

Oh im gonna enjoy this.
This Reply is solely for Noz Crow,who decided to try and insult me:

You start of by saying that Anet says they are not against farming and then they go off and nerf farming.Where the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO did you get that from?
They DO NOT change skills purely because it is overused in farming(except spirit bond),They change skills because of pvp, because its being abused, or maybe because its being used in a way they didn't think of and that they think it is broken this way.

AOE , running to heal, or simply running,no matter how annoying and sometimes stupid as it may be all these changes are to make the game more realistic, not in the sense that if i slice your neck with a sword that you would instantly die, but more in the sense to how human players react against other players,i know you don't give a rats ass about pvp and that is your choice.But in pvp if someone was to use Meteor Shower, the players would get out of it, if players are low on health they will try and get away from the cause of the damage, go closer to there healers so they can get healed, or go to their backline and heal up,then come back and kill you.
Simply running may seems stupid to you , but without you knowing you are the one being fooled, if you as your warrior decided to run after the monk and the monks runs away and you keep chasing cause you HAVE to kill him then that leaves your team with one player down in the main battle ,most important a big damage dealer, so while you are wasting your time running laps around the map after that monk, the monks team is killing off your party.

You are the one that didn't know when to stop chasing the monk and switch target, you are the one that followed it into 3 groups, he didn't force you.

if i wanted that on my pve.. id just pvp all day..
pve=pve it shudnt even resemble anything close to pvp..wel mayb just a little
[sarcasm]hey i got an idea! lets hire bunch of guys to actualy PLAY the monsters! ye play 'em so our good old buddy XX gets the reality he wants this way the monsters WILL be actin like humans [/sarcasm]

p.s im actualy pvp player.. i hate pve w/ a passion.. :P just soo boring

Masseur · Mar 08, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

I know my words sound harsh, I'm trying not to be, but these seem to me to be how Anet looks at it in my view. So this is my opinion, not meant to be against anyone in particular. Up front, I don't do PvP, I don't farm (did when 55'ing started, but only briefly, didn't like it, too boring), I just do the PvE part. I don't have anything against people who do farm, run (I run guildies when needed), etc...

As has been said, farming is irrelevant when it comes to skill updates (reading not nerfs), it's the PvP end that is looked at. If it affects the other part of the game (PvE), then so be it. They might even try and balance that out between the two. But PvP and PvE is the game. Farming, running, etc... is something people might do IN the game, but it's not a part of the game, no matter what you (meaning whoever) choose to believe. I have nothing against farming or whatever, if people want to do that. There are lots of things people do IN the game, but as far as Anet is concerned, there is only 2 parts to the game.

You might try and convince them there is more to the game (so that they actually look at "it" when making skill balances), such as farming, running and such, but until they acknowledge such a thing, they won't care what their skill balances do to them. So maybe you need to constructively give them reasons why such things SHOULD be considered when doing skill balances (PvP will always be first in line, but they might at least consider how it's affecting other things). Be convincing without being insulting. Stick to facts, don't give blanket statements that you know aren't true and that give them reasons to ignore. I hope I'm helping, sorry if I'm not.

On a Side Note:

I love how a person who likes to do a certain thing (let's just say farming), and a skill update hurts their build or strategy or whatever, Anet is angering the players. They might affect (upset or whatever) a few people, but not the vast majority of users. YOU are not the GW community, just 1 person among many. So please only state that YOU are being hurt or angered. You can't speak for the GW Players.

Xenex Xclame · Mar 08, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

/Applause
^This guy, get the idea.
@Bocterduke, whining i cant take, if you come on here and whine about something, i can understand that and maybe even dispute it with you,so we both get our points across, but if you are at a point you are threating to rage quit then sorry,but i don't have time for you.

@lilnate22 , hey its not my decision, its Anet even tho i like how it is now ( yes some of the things are annoying) but still i rather have the monsters how they are now then like headless chicken beating on me while SS is on them.

strcpy · Mar 08, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masseur

I love how a person who likes to do a certain thing (let's just say farming), and a skill update hurts their build or strategy or whatever, Anet is angering the players. They might affect (upset or whatever) a few people, but not the vast majority of users. YOU are not the GW community, just 1 person among many. So please only state that YOU are being hurt or angered. You can't speak for the GW Players.

Not only that, but their "fix" will generally at least tick others off, usually WAY more than what ever made them mad to begin with. This is what tends to separate good managers from bad ones - the ability to see past themselves and their own wants (and is also why many never move into management - a complete inability to do that). The majority of peoples "perfect" game mechanics would have VERY few players because it only appeals to one small segment they stay in (which is, of course, everyone they know and thus the whole gaming community).

Anet doesn't want to loose customers, they do not hate any segments of the game. They do what they feel will get them the largest group. If making 51% of the game happy makes 49% mad - well sucks to be in the 49%.

I haven't been very happy with the farming updates - "hardcore" farmers move right along. Casual ones like me have had to greatly change our method of farming and, quite frankly, it isn't nearly as money making. But then, I know that the majority of the gamers fit two bills: hardcore PvP and casual PvE (that is - playing the game) and the skill/AI changes are great for them. I adapted, no big deal. I still can not afford FoW, I still can afford Vabbian - just my earning range shifted more towards "vabbian" as the max armor I can get. In fact, while it has closed some areas I could previously farm it has opened up others.

This type of ranting has been around since I started now 20 months ago and I suspect it was pretty much there in the few months after release to when I joined also. Guilds are dieing, no one plays, updates has driven everyone off, and no fun anywhere in the game all followed by increased sales. Usally those same people are still griding away at whatever it was the update caused them to pause their grind for, oblivious to the fact that they are/were totally wrong (and get really indignant when one points it out - the failure is always the next chapter away and they are correct *this* time and it is *totally* different). I also suspect it will *always* be that way - even in whatever the next game is.

lilnate22 · Mar 09, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

@lilnate22 , hey its not my decision, its Anet even tho i like how it is now ( yes some of the things are annoying) but still i rather have the monsters how they are now then like headless chicken beating on me while SS is on them.

thats true and i agree wit u.. but theres fine line between headless chikens and all out near perfect human like players... even YOU must agree attempting to kill a monk boss that runs for a long time is annoying...

Xenex Xclame · Mar 09, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I do find it annoying , i curse at them so bad that my neighbors start banging on the wall.

lilnate22 · Mar 09, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

then there ya go...
i mean im not hating on pve or anything but..
its SO DAMN EZ! lets just put it this way.. pve is for mostly the new people to the game or people that doesnt have the proper skill for pvp..
a pvp player will 99.9% the time be good at both pvp and pve.. but a pve is player that can pwn the game in like a day or w/e isnt realy gona be good at both pvp and pve.. we can all agree that pvp i much harder than pvp

how ever its exactly this.. pve isnt SUPPOSED to be complicated... its for the enjoyment of all a new player to gw should not be trubled by pve like pvp does

but NOOOOO all the "updates" make pve as hard as if not HARDER that pvp
no realy.. i mean it..

ive beaten HoH cuple timez..but still farmin now to get sum muulah still seems to get the eter of me..

Ariena Najea · Mar 09, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

I completely agree with Masseur.

Farming, running, etc is all part of different players' perceptions of how to play in PvE. PvE ought to evolve as time passes or the game would simply become boring, like many old console games sitting in our basements which were addicting then but lost their favor due to their repetitive nature.

PvE wasn't designed to be run or farmed, that was made more evident with the release of Factions. I've seen lvl 4 characters in Ember Light Camp buying and capping skills, that's just not right. In Factions you have to progress through the storyline as intended to access missions and outposts.

Make your four or six man farm teams for the Underworld or other high-level areas, but don't spam then complain when it's taken away.

lilnate22 · Mar 09, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

najea...its true that its not what pve is MENT to be...but lets look at the big picture here...

john doe makes 100k a day farming/running people (both witch takes skill)
anet dumps the nerf-bomber nerfing running/ farming to hell

john doe no longer makes 100k a day but a mere 1k-ish (just to point argument out)

john doe heres about a gold selling site... 100k for $6 ... that like a hours worth of pay...

take a wild guess what john does gona do...

p.s do note i HATE pve...

Noz Crow · Mar 09, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Actually Wilbertwoot who started this post said "That was quite a rude comment above. My question is why they keep releasing updates that make the game less enjoyable. Check this...I was at the imp cave just a second ago, and I tried to outrun the Avicara Ardent and Wise for over 30 minutes."

I was at the same place a little earlier that night, and i might add first time since the change and thought holy cow. I of course will change my tactics and try again. That is the challenge of the game. I was just venting some new frustration and not trying to make any enemies. I just wish people would contribute to the discussion instead of being people. So yes XX you were right and i would never buy any gold. I have played along time (17months) and all but 1 of my character are already established with everything they need (from various other farming, past and present). I was saying it will drive new players to stoop to these levels. I love this game and will continue to play no matter what they throw at me. I will try other games coming out (LOTR online and Warhammer) but i am sure i will continue to play GW. Sorry Wilbur for turning your topic into this!

lorinton · Mar 09, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

I enjoy all of the AI updates I've experienced other than the refusal to drop aggro in Lornar's Pass. It makes PvE much more interesting and provides the opportunity to use some tactics and strategy in that aspect of the game. Farming is the worst sort of boring, yielding primarily individual gain, but I'm impressed by those who figure out ways to do it. I'd never willing sacrifice another aspect of the game to facilitate it. Running is an interesting challenge and good runners possess impressive skill and command my respect. But again, its an individual. Its not worth sacrificing any other aspect of the game to faciliate their ability.

Guild Wars is designed as a team game. If changes improve team play they are good changes, regardless of how they impact solo activities. If you want to use Guild Wars for solo activities, go command our respect by figuring out a way to make it work with the tools you're given. If something is broken, submit a bug report or present a reasoned, logical and polite description for public discussion. Empassioned outbursts about how your fun has been ruined and threats to leave the game work against you.

Lord of Fiery Doom · Mar 09, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

"RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO"

Explain please?

Anyway, I'm sympathetic with you wilburgtwoot, but I don't think there's anything that we can do, or if ANet really wants to Avicara to be like this, anything that anybody will do. I'm sorry

Nilator · Mar 09, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO is what is replaced with a cuss word.

Xenex Xclame · Mar 09, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Actually its the other way around, a cuss word gets replaced with that.

shanaya · Mar 09, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorinton

I enjoy all of the AI updates I've experienced other than the refusal to drop aggro in Lornar's Pass. It makes PvE much more interesting and provides the opportunity to use some tactics and strategy in that aspect of the game. Farming is the worst sort of boring, yielding primarily individual gain, but I'm impressed by those who figure out ways to do it. I'd never willing sacrifice another aspect of the game to facilitate it. Running is an interesting challenge and good runners possess impressive skill and command my respect. But again, its an individual. Its not worth sacrificing any other aspect of the game to faciliate their ability.

Guild Wars is designed as a team game. If changes improve team play they are good changes, regardless of how they impact solo activities. If you want to use Guild Wars for solo activities, go command our respect by figuring out a way to make it work with the tools you're given. If something is broken, submit a bug report or present a reasoned, logical and polite description for public discussion. Empassioned outbursts about how your fun has been ruined and threats to leave the game work against you.

I totally agree. Very nicely put, lorinton.

Ace~O~Spade · Mar 09, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

uhh... hi. reading through some of the reply and stuff (well, some of them...). I jus wanna say something.

GW is a game that was made so people could enjoy MMORPG's and the other stuff so U DONT HAVE TO PAY MONTHLY. I totaly like this game than the other wannube's that rip u off.

GW does the update to make things balance out (u dont want something to be overpowering because everything else tends to fall apart "unbalanced").

GW tend to nerf stuff not because they want u to hate the game. It gives u new ideas to try other things and other tactics to use in either farming or running.

GW is working hard for the games to be able to enjoy the game. "I was doing a mission once when a couple of chars were talking about how GW is having a hard time trying to bring the new campaign out because too many complaints are being taken care of". Im not saying its true, i jus heard them talking about it.

Pls... no more of that rude stuff. Sit back and enjoy the game (or at least try)

Tarun · Mar 09, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

To think, a while back ANet said they had nothing against people getting runs. Yet they added gates in Factions and now the aggro is on longer, even activating well outside of the "Danger Zone".

flyinhigh · Mar 10, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

give up farming if they want to keep jacking with it, buy it from the gold farmers. 1 mil gold for like 30 bucks. sounds like a good deal.

Mar 08, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20	#22
lilnate22 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: Runners of Fury Profession: W/Mo	i swear to god that the guys at anet in charge of the economy is smoking something...OR they are complete morons OR they are apes... i ll take option C ne how lets look at the reason for "farming nerfs" we can all agree that it because of the countless bot/RL farmers who sell for cash.. agree? yes now lets look at some sites that sell this gw gold... 100k=5.89 200k=$10 or 100k=6.79 200k=11.56 as you can see this is like minimum wage.. and theres NO WAY IN HELL w/ the crap job that analnet does at "farming updates" that you can get 100k in 1 hour... so isnt it more beneficial fo a player to just pay the $6 and get 100k?? i think so what anet is tryin 2 do nd stop farmers is actualy helping 'em ive noticed that the number of gold selling sites have risen tremendously over tha past month... so we'll let analnet decide..

Mar 08, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31	#24
Masseur Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Southern California Profession: R/Mo	I know my words sound harsh, I'm trying not to be, but these seem to me to be how Anet looks at it in my view. So this is my opinion, not meant to be against anyone in particular. Up front, I don't do PvP, I don't farm (did when 55'ing started, but only briefly, didn't like it, too boring), I just do the PvE part. I don't have anything against people who do farm, run (I run guildies when needed), etc... As has been said, farming is irrelevant when it comes to skill updates (reading not nerfs), it's the PvP end that is looked at. If it affects the other part of the game (PvE), then so be it. They might even try and balance that out between the two. But PvP and PvE is the game. Farming, running, etc... is something people might do IN the game, but it's not a part of the game, no matter what you (meaning whoever) choose to believe. I have nothing against farming or whatever, if people want to do that. There are lots of things people do IN the game, but as far as Anet is concerned, there is only 2 parts to the game. You might try and convince them there is more to the game (so that they actually look at "it" when making skill balances), such as farming, running and such, but until they acknowledge such a thing, they won't care what their skill balances do to them. So maybe you need to constructively give them reasons why such things SHOULD be considered when doing skill balances (PvP will always be first in line, but they might at least consider how it's affecting other things). Be convincing without being insulting. Stick to facts, don't give blanket statements that you know aren't true and that give them reasons to ignore. I hope I'm helping, sorry if I'm not. On a Side Note: I love how a person who likes to do a certain thing (let's just say farming), and a skill update hurts their build or strategy or whatever, Anet is angering the players. They might affect (upset or whatever) a few people, but not the vast majority of users. YOU are not the GW community, just 1 person among many. So please only state that YOU are being hurt or angered. You can't speak for the GW Players.

Mar 08, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22	#25
Xenex Xclame Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: DPX Profession: R/	/Applause ^This guy, get the idea. @Bocterduke, whining i cant take, if you come on here and whine about something, i can understand that and maybe even dispute it with you,so we both get our points across, but if you are at a point you are threating to rage quit then sorry,but i don't have time for you. @lilnate22 , hey its not my decision, its Anet even tho i like how it is now ( yes some of the things are annoying) but still i rather have the monsters how they are now then like headless chicken beating on me while SS is on them.

Mar 09, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22	#28
Xenex Xclame Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: DPX Profession: R/	I do find it annoying , i curse at them so bad that my neighbors start banging on the wall.

Mar 09, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37	#29
lilnate22 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: Runners of Fury Profession: W/Mo	then there ya go... i mean im not hating on pve or anything but.. its SO DAMN EZ! lets just put it this way.. pve is for mostly the new people to the game or people that doesnt have the proper skill for pvp.. a pvp player will 99.9% the time be good at both pvp and pve.. but a pve is player that can pwn the game in like a day or w/e isnt realy gona be good at both pvp and pve.. we can all agree that pvp i much harder than pvp how ever its exactly this.. pve isnt SUPPOSED to be complicated... its for the enjoyment of all a new player to gw should not be trubled by pve like pvp does but NOOOOO all the "updates" make pve as hard as if not HARDER that pvp no realy.. i mean it.. ive beaten HoH cuple timez..but still farmin now to get sum muulah still seems to get the eter of me..

Mar 09, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41	#30
Ariena Najea Silence and Motion Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buffalo NY Guild: New Horizon [NH]	I completely agree with Masseur. Farming, running, etc is all part of different players' perceptions of how to play in PvE. PvE ought to evolve as time passes or the game would simply become boring, like many old console games sitting in our basements which were addicting then but lost their favor due to their repetitive nature. PvE wasn't designed to be run or farmed, that was made more evident with the release of Factions. I've seen lvl 4 characters in Ember Light Camp buying and capping skills, that's just not right. In Factions you have to progress through the storyline as intended to access missions and outposts. Make your four or six man farm teams for the Underworld or other high-level areas, but don't spam then complain when it's taken away.

Mar 09, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49	#31
lilnate22 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: Runners of Fury Profession: W/Mo	najea...its true that its not what pve is MENT to be...but lets look at the big picture here... john doe makes 100k a day farming/running people (both witch takes skill) anet dumps the nerf-bomber nerfing running/ farming to hell john doe no longer makes 100k a day but a mere 1k-ish (just to point argument out) john doe heres about a gold selling site... 100k for $6 ... that like a hours worth of pay... take a wild guess what john does gona do... p.s do note i HATE pve...

Mar 09, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02	#32
Noz Crow Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2006 Profession: R/Mo	Actually Wilbertwoot who started this post said "That was quite a rude comment above. My question is why they keep releasing updates that make the game less enjoyable. Check this...I was at the imp cave just a second ago, and I tried to outrun the Avicara Ardent and Wise for over 30 minutes." I was at the same place a little earlier that night, and i might add first time since the change and thought holy cow. I of course will change my tactics and try again. That is the challenge of the game. I was just venting some new frustration and not trying to make any enemies. I just wish people would contribute to the discussion instead of being people. So yes XX you were right and i would never buy any gold. I have played along time (17months) and all but 1 of my character are already established with everything they need (from various other farming, past and present). I was saying it will drive new players to stoop to these levels. I love this game and will continue to play no matter what they throw at me. I will try other games coming out (LOTR online and Warhammer) but i am sure i will continue to play GW. Sorry Wilbur for turning your topic into this!

Mar 09, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56	#33
lorinton Academy Page Join Date: Dec 2006	I enjoy all of the AI updates I've experienced other than the refusal to drop aggro in Lornar's Pass. It makes PvE much more interesting and provides the opportunity to use some tactics and strategy in that aspect of the game. Farming is the worst sort of boring, yielding primarily individual gain, but I'm impressed by those who figure out ways to do it. I'd never willing sacrifice another aspect of the game to facilitate it. Running is an interesting challenge and good runners possess impressive skill and command my respect. But again, its an individual. Its not worth sacrificing any other aspect of the game to faciliate their ability. Guild Wars is designed as a team game. If changes improve team play they are good changes, regardless of how they impact solo activities. If you want to use Guild Wars for solo activities, go command our respect by figuring out a way to make it work with the tools you're given. If something is broken, submit a bug report or present a reasoned, logical and polite description for public discussion. Empassioned outbursts about how your fun has been ruined and threats to leave the game work against you.

Mar 09, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51	#34
Lord of Fiery Doom Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2007 Profession: E/Me	"RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO" Explain please? Anyway, I'm sympathetic with you wilburgtwoot, but I don't think there's anything that we can do, or if ANet really wants to Avicara to be like this, anything that anybody will do. I'm sorry

Mar 09, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02	#35
Nilator Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005 Profession: Mo/	RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO is what is replaced with a cuss word.

Mar 09, 2007, 11:00 PM // 23:00	#36
Xenex Xclame Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: DPX Profession: R/	Actually its the other way around, a cuss word gets replaced with that.

Mar 09, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34	#38
Ace~O~Spade Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: SD Guild: Cheese It [BOX] Profession: Rt/Mo	uhh... hi. reading through some of the reply and stuff (well, some of them...). I jus wanna say something. GW is a game that was made so people could enjoy MMORPG's and the other stuff so U DONT HAVE TO PAY MONTHLY. I totaly like this game than the other wannube's that rip u off. GW does the update to make things balance out (u dont want something to be overpowering because everything else tends to fall apart "unbalanced"). GW tend to nerf stuff not because they want u to hate the game. It gives u new ideas to try other things and other tactics to use in either farming or running. GW is working hard for the games to be able to enjoy the game. "I was doing a mission once when a couple of chars were talking about how GW is having a hard time trying to bring the new campaign out because too many complaints are being taken care of". Im not saying its true, i jus heard them talking about it. Pls... no more of that rude stuff. Sit back and enjoy the game (or at least try)

Mar 09, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45	#39
Tarun Technician's Corner Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The TARDIS Guild: http://www.lunarsoft.net/ http://forums.lunarsoft.net/	To think, a while back ANet said they had nothing against people getting runs. Yet they added gates in Factions and now the aggro is on longer, even activating well outside of the "Danger Zone".

Mar 10, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30	#40
flyinhigh Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: meh Guild: wtfpwned Profession: N/	give up farming if they want to keep jacking with it, buy it from the gold farmers. 1 mil gold for like 30 bucks. sounds like a good deal.